Mobility expert in A to Z interview: ‘The cable car makes sense for Munich’
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AZ: Professor Wagner, you don’t seem to get it Munich Soon the cable car as a show in Public transportmainly for financial reasons – why is it still a good idea?
Harry Wagner: Munich has a very radial structure. The subway network was built for the 1972 Olympic Games and there are hardly any cross-connections. Cable cars are ideal for connections and connections that do not exist yet, but are in demand. Plus: one subway It takes 15 years to build a cable car, and a cable car can be built in 15 months. The cable car can meet the needs of moving quickly, easily, in a climate-friendly way, and without more surface embankments, which is why it is particularly suitable for large cities.
Wagner: Cable cars should be integrated into public transportation
This means, despite the underground to Freiham and the second main route, a cable car is still needed?
If you turn the question around, it means that there will be no more traffic jams in Munich once the subway and the second main line are completed. But this will not be the case. It will remove a little traffic load – there, where under the ground and train Then drive. But there are many other transportation hubs that this does not cover.
So how can you make cable cars in big cities profitable?
Most public transportation companies run a deficit and are supported by their shareholders. In principle, the cable car can be operated profitably. But we can’t always look at the bottom line. We have to think more and CO2– Consider the savings from the cable car, the noise savings if people sit in the cable car instead of the car, and the savings on infrastructure measures. I may not have to build any more overrides. Cable cars must be 100 percent integrated into public transportation. Under no circumstances should I buy an additional ticket for the cable car. Then people will not accept them. The goal should be to enable climate-neutral mobility, even if it costs something.
Cable car in Munich? Boone can become a role model
Right now, the chances of riding the cable car in Munich are rather slim — how confident are you that something will change here or elsewhere in the near future?
In the German mentality, it has not yet become a means of public transport. In South America, it’s completely different. There are whole cable car networks. There must be one or two leading cities in Germany. Boone has already advanced there. Possibly the first cable car integrated into public transport in Germany. If you then have positive experiences, many cities will follow suit. The costs also speak for themselves: the price of the cable car is about five million euros, and the kilometer of the underground is 250 million euros.
What are the requirements that must be met in order for the cable car to fit into the city?
It certainly won’t be possible to use it in a logical way in every city in Germany. Every city has a different public transportation network and needs. The cable car can carry 3,500 people per hour. This makes it one of the means of mass transportation. It is suitable wherever I have joints that can be covered in this capacity. There will be cities like Munich that have a very radial structure when it comes to public transportation. Or a city like Ingolstadt, in the middle of which is the Danube. Especially when there is a river as an obstacle, the cable car is a tried and tested method because tunnels or roads are very expensive and long to build.
Expert: ‘If you want to ban cars, offer alternatives’
What role does pedestrians still play in mobility concepts?
big. But he didn’t talk about that much. Its scope is limited, and walking can only meet a limited number of mobility needs. But you should pay more attention to the pedestrians and try to integrate them more. Because even if you enter the city in the morning, you use public transport on the way back and don’t drive. However, there is not a lot of money to enhance the footpath infrastructure. People are talking more about bikes right now. It also makes sense because you can cover a radius with it—especially with a Pedelec—which makes it really competitive with the car.
How far this is blocked from the city center is a big problem in Munich in particular. Does it make sense to keep cars out of the equation entirely or – keyword parking costs – make them usable only for the wealthy?
I think it would be wrong to basically ban them. One should not only think of the heart of the city, but also of the people who live on the outskirts of cities. If you decide to make the city center or parts of it car-free, you need to first consider what alternatives you can offer people. When people realize that they can reach the city more flexibly and comfortably by cable car, tram or bus, they will do that too. Just say: Cars out – that’s not going to meet a high level of social acceptance.
“You have to give every technology a chance to mature”
When it comes to scooters, once hailed as a sensible addition to urban commuting, disappointment has set in. How do you rate it?
It is not sustainable. It has a relatively short useful life and is then often discarded. However, it makes sense to offer people individual commuting over short, last-mile distances. If we manage to make these e-scooters available in a more climate-friendly way than today, it’s certainly an alternative to driving a distance to a train station, for example. You have to give every technology a chance to mature. Cars were also less climate friendly 60 years ago than they are today.
There are many disparate interests, the demands of the economy, and the concerns of older adults who no longer trust themselves to ride a bike, or take a bus, if they have limitations. Is it possible to ensure that each person can apply according to their needs?
One measure cannot cover all interests. Each solution will come with pros and cons. There is no one size fits all. However, there will always be options for special cases. In Ingolstadt, there was a cable car discussion where a citizen said that the proposed route did not help him with his needs, and he could only go by car. But if others use the train, it can travel without traffic jams.
Expert: Don’t think in terms of the streets, think of the people
What are the biggest omissions in traffic planning – in big cities like Munich and in the country?
As you always think, how can I create capabilities for more mobility? So: build a bypass, tunnel, bridge. And don’t think about mobility in terms of needs, so think about how you can get people to change their behavior. We must not think in terms of the streets, but in terms of people and their needs.
One of your thesis is that companies give some offers for free and customers pay with data. Shouldn’t that be difficult in a data protection sensitive country like Germany?
That’s what Ryanair will do: offer a zero euro ticket and only charge you if you don’t get on the plane. Then Ryanair will put you in touch: with the hotel in Barcelona, with the tourist center, with the car rental company. The airline knows where you are traveling and your interest in museums. Then they introduce you to the most beautiful museums in Barcelona and connect you with them. This is how the flight provider generates its sales: not with the airline ticket, but with the platform you’re on as a customer. However, there will also be forms where you pay for the trip and do not disclose any data. I don’t think Germans are that sensitive when it comes to data. Every app has data. Nobody reads the license agreement.
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